Canadian Model Identification

[CanadianTim]

Hi,

I just bought what I am told is a 1938 Pontiac Business Man's coupe. Photo attached (hopefully). It's a 2 door, single seat, 6cyl.

The VIN is 9 digits long: 8251716XX. I just replaced the two digits with X as I was reluctant to post my complete VIN on the web.

The model is identified as 8-25-17 on the firewall tag.

Can anyone tell me what I have here and how to decipher the VIN/Model#.

Thanks!

[Larry]

There is something strange going on here. I assume you have an eight cylinder because of the 8 at the beginning of the VIN and the model desigination. However, there was no 25-model in 1938. The 25-model started in 1939. But, even if there was a 25-model, there was no "17" body style. For example, a six cylinder 1940 two-door sedan is a 40-2511 and a 1940 four-door sedan is a 40-2519. (This was for the Chevy body car, there was also a six cylinder Buick body car which was a model 26)
Your number seems to indicate a 1938 with a model of "25" and a body style of "17", neither of which existed for 1938.
That being said, however, we may be dealing with a Canadian designation. Check our Technical Advisor listing and drop a note to David Ross, our Canadian Pontiac Tech Advisor. Perhaps he can help.
Let us know what you find out.

[CanadianTim]

Thanks. That's exactly the interpretation I came up with when I tried to match the numbers. The canadian factor has affected the VIN on most cars I've owned. This one was completely built in Canada.

I'll post my eventual findings.

[CanadianTim]

I've emailed David.

I've also done some web searches regarding Canadian Pontiacs. Seems that during the depression they built some Canadian only Pontiacs that were basically Chevrolets with upgraded Pontiac trim to give the impression that "Pontiacs" were suddenly available at a lower pricepoint.

This appears to have happened in 1937 and 1938 which coincides with my model year.

The info I found also indicated that these were the first Pontiacs with an OHV 6 cylinder which is what I have, rather than a flathead.

Do the US 38's have flathead sixes? I'm getting more intrigued!

[Stu Norman]

Wow! It's an OHV 6, not a flathead 6?

Cool car Tim!

[CanadianTim]

yep, OHV 6. Still need to look into the engine numbers.

Also has factory dual exhaust. GM Cast exhaust manifold with two outlets on different angles.

[Larry]

Well, it sounds like you have stumbled on a pretty rare Pontiac. Surely there are a lot of Canadian Pontiacs around, but few ever surface from before the '50s (or were even built before then!).
It looks like you have the old Chevy "Stove Bolt" six. All Pontiacs, sixes and eights, were flathead until 1955.
Certainly keep us posted as you learn more and <i>please</i> send us pictures and information (when you can) so we can feature your unique Pontiac in our On-Line Magazine.
Lucky you! You found a diamond in amoungst the coal!

[CanadianTim]

Yes it is interesting. The challenge is that someone took it apart and added "spare" parts that are similar (like the 3 slightly different clutch forks!) to the originals so I'll have to do some homework.

I looked at some photos of 1938 Chev cars and trucks and the "stovebolt six" sounds correct. Looks like what I have. The chev drivetrain explains the floor shifters in the parts boxes.

Attached is a photo of the fresh motor that came with it. I have another greasier one as well. The intake/exhaust appears to be on the opposite side of the flathead sixes (drivers side on my car).

Note the dual exhaust. The chassis still has the complete exhaust so this was on there when it was parked 40 years ago and there no evidence of any "hotrodding".

When I have more info/photos I'll post. The info I've gotten here already has helped as I've only had this car for a week.

[CanadianTim]

Photo won't post...have to try later...

[Larry]

Make sure your photo isn't too large (2mb max, and jpg extension) and try again.
You're correct on the exhaust as the flatheads were on the passenger side.
From all I've ever heard, you should be pretty safe using Chevrolet manuals for the engine and transmission. They were a bolt-in deal. Probably rear end also.
Sounds like this is going to be a real neat project on a very rare Pontiac. Keep us posted as you progress. This is all information we want the save and share.

[Larry]

Found some more interesting information about your '38 Pontiac in the book "Canadian Cars 1946-1984" by R. Perry Zavitz. In it he says: "For 1938, two Canadian Pontiac series were offered. The Special used Chevrolet's body with Pontiac grille and front fender styling. Two obvious Chevrolet features of this Pontiac were the catwalk that extended into the front door, and Chevy taillights. The engine was the regular 216.5 cid 85 hp ohv Chevrolet six. The Deluxe series used the Pontiac body, but was powered by the 224 Chevrolet motor."
From the looks of your photo, you have this Chevrolet "catwalk" extending into your door, so yours is most likely the "Special".
Hope this helps as you unravel the mysteries of your Canadian '38 Pontiac.