Keeping the Pontiac Tradition Young & Alive

[bencar]

I sure hope PMD is watching, and I applaud what Larry is doing, it's pretty much how I've tried to run the NY/NJ Slant-Six Club of America, minus the Online aspect factoring in as heavily. The one thing I stress at the NY/NJ Slant-Six Club of America's annual Meet is, if it rolls, bring it. Though we do award Trophies, that is NOT the focus of the day, having fun, sharing information, and making everyone feel welcome, are the main elements of the day, and the focus of the Club. This Online Club makes the leap to the next logical step in 21st Century 'Car Clubs', in that as Larry has stated, it's there 24/7, with information updates coming as quckly as they can be posted. Now this is the way a Club should be, with ALL comers welcome, and being there when the Members need it to be. In time, hopefully others will follow, and it will be nice to be the one they're following .

[lightning]

I think "Super" touched on the subject word that we as old car hobbyists scratch our balding heads over. The word is "relate". We can relate to building neglected cars, junk yard cars, going to shows and seeing 100 thousand dollar restorations and only dreaming about owning one of those.

My father use to tell me that the only funny comedy is something we can relate to. Most of todays comedians, to me, are not funny at all. My kids however laugh?

I have two kids and have an old Pontiac. Both kids have gone to many POCI conventions. Both are not at all impressed with seeing old cars. Today, I received a call to help a 50 year old, recently retired man with his just bought '69 GTO. He waited a real long time before he bought a "old car". His son is 18, and could car less about the car. Why? It doesn't mean anything to him. My kids... same thing. They have gone to car shows, enjoyed the hotels, but the cars they see on the street are what they get the most interested in. The pre-mid eighties cars are as foreign to them as today's comedians are to me.

Now, please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that ALL kids are this way. But I trully feel that the youth of today cannot relate to cars that we saw our parents driving. My kids would not be caught dead driving a non-a/c car, with no CD player.

On the other hand, they all drive cars . In most cases, their cars are ones that they cannot fix. The ones that have an interest in building, use the same exact philosphy that we old timers used. Get the parents throw away car or find something "cheap" in the newspaper. Whhels, tires, mufflers, and stereo upgrade.

Can anybody today find a "cheap" '60's Pontiac, not really. The cars kids find most attractive and cheap are Honda's and Toyota's. After market equipment is plentifull and they see these cars at school, on the street, and at the movies. So rather than cheap Nova's Mustangs, GTO's, they're looking Accords, Maxima's etc.

Unfortunately, I think the lust for really old cars will die off completely. "60's and "'70's will last longer but will also fade away. I am a die hard auto enthusiast ( you can tell by my posting this on a Saturday night at 11:30) I but while first getting involved with this hobby, I could care less about '30's, thru mid-sixties cars. So how could I expect my kids to be interested in '20's thru '70's. True enthusisasts will grow to like them, but the regular, " I'm only in this for my car" guy is lost.

The tide has changed, the focus of those wanting to build have gone to foreign makes and models.

I saw a "Stop Smoking" commercial. They showed a conviennce store with a Cigarette company sign at eye level for the average 10 year old. The ad. insinuated that the best way to start kids smoking and buying a specific brand is to advertise to them and they will slowly retain the company logo.

There is posting in another part of PR.com that displays a "book-cover" with Pontiacs from '1970. Same thought process as the cigarette ad. Get them young. It works. How many kids used the book covers and then dreamed about driving GTO' Firebirds while daydreaming in class. I did!

Pontiac doesn't do that. They give Oprah cars to give away to people that have already dreamt of BMW's/ Mercedes, Lexus. The cars are real nice, but, for many, it is not what they are dreaming of.

I hope this rambling has made some sense. It is just my opinion of the state of the old car hobby as it relates to bringing new youngblood in in big enough numbers to sustain the hobby as we know once we lick the bucket!

[bencar]

The odd thing here, is that I have found kids who can relate to the cars we like, and what helps get the process going, is not snubbing what they like. Now I seriously doubt we'll see the numbers of those discovering the cars of the 30's through the 70's, as we have. For one thing, as the years go by, the cars from that time, become fewer and fewer in numbers, and the prices (as you noted Lightning), escalate, but they won't just go away. All that said, keeping the Pontiac tradition young, has a lot to do with both the older Pontiacs, and the newer ones, and being as inclusive as each of us can manage to be. This is how we can help each other relate. As I said, if we don't snub the owners or even the aficionados of the newer Pontiacs, and dare I say even the Hondas and Toyotas, then they will be more inclined to listen to us, and appreciate our cars too. Two way streets always acommodate more traffic than one way streets do.

[duncan2plus2]

I agree with a lot of what you say about the younger folks not being interested in our old steel dinosaurs. My son was one of those kids for a long time. Funny thing happened recently though...he started showing interest in my two old Ponchos then asked me if I would help him find a 66 or 67 Tempest, Lemans, GTO or Firebird so he can start fixing it up. Of course he wants to build a 12 second machine... but I guess we'll sure have fun trying to get there...will be fun to see how much he's willing to pay for those 12 seconds!

I asked him why he got interested all of a sudden...told me he wanted a car he could actually work on and tinker with and not have to call a computer tech every time it twitched. .

Hopefully more kids his age group will also get into the old Ponchos...I still think if we make it more fun and interesting they will get into it...and I know for sure he isn't going to go to a bunch of shows to listen to people take cheap shots at the car. He wants to see the racing and other fun stuff.

He recently bought a new Pontiac...a G6 GTP coupe with manual transmission...quite a cool Pontiac. I'm convinced he will get hooked if he takes his G6 to a few shows and gets the same welcome and interest in his participation that the '65 GTO driver gets, or even I get with the 2+2.
I sure look forward to it happening.

[lightning]

I definately agree with both Duncan and Bencar, shows now have to be open to all years and if possible, to all makes. I remember car magazines would leave the "o" off the word Ford, or put down the other GM Divisions, because one group of owners were so dedicated to that one model, that they did not want to be associated with Brand X.

For vintage vehicles, I believe we are all in the same boat. No matter what vehicle brand, we are being regulated to extinction. For anyone that has followed Bencars excellent reporting about governmental mandates, it doesn't matter, Pontiac, Ford, Chrysler, they are making it so differcult to enjoy owning/driving.

As for kids and what they like.... it changes all the time. "We grow up to become our parents" may also turn out to be "If our parents were into "old cars" we eventually will be also. I certainly hope so. The fun of building, will always be part of the human emotion.

I'll stay tuned to see what happens!

[bencar]

[bencar]

I could be wrong, but it is all about involvement first, with price, availability, and making the involved person welcome following up in no particular order. My wife recently commented that she didn't like seeing 2006 cars at the local Cruise Nights and Car Shows. My reply was that I had no problem with them being at the shows, and if it made the others happy, that the newer cars could simply compete against each other for judging. I then added that I hadn't forgotten the sarcastic remarks made about my Plymouth by the old-timers of the day when I first started going to Car Shows in 1978, and I didn't want to do that to the newcomers of today. If we make these folks feel welcome, they'll have a more positive attitude toward us, the hobby, and our cars.

I'll also add that my Son, and his car friends, not only like my now older cars, but after being exposed to them for some time now, have shown interest in getting one for themselves. Yeah prices have risen on the perfect examples of my cars that are out there, but not all of these kids are looking for turn key drivers, and with a little perseverance, they can find themselves something.

Together, new, and old, we'll keep the hobby going, and the Pontiac tradition young.

[super]

Hot rodding and modifying cars has always circulated around availability for the younger generation. We are generally faced with modifying or driving what is common and readily easy to obtain. Front-wheel drive cars have taken over most of the market and this is what I see kids working on today.

I have always welcomed this younger generation to my car shows and enjoy there input on the new generation hot rodding technics. Electronic changes, exhaust, etc. are all common. Some of their modifications require some good intelligence levels. I can appreciate that.

In my small community, I have hooked some of these young kids on to older cars too. My '74 T/A has caught many of their attention. It is a 11-second 1/4-mile street driver(through the exhaust on street tires). The exhaust pulse always catches their attention. Taking them for a ride in this heavy iron is always a way to demand respect and show them what the musclecar era was about. As Ben stated, it is a two way street for enthusiast. We have got to be open minded.

[bencar]

Worked for many of my Son's friends.

[duncan2plus2]

Yes, Lightning I think your word "relate" hits the nail on the head. To me the thing most of us have in common is our relationship with these cars and the other people who drive them like us.

The shows and trophies and all that jazz are fun for some too, but the true measures of any of these Pontiac meets is how much fun everyone had and how much pride they can take in their accomplishments. We all know how frustrating it can be to work so long and hard just to hear some stodgy judge to walk up and start criticizing our car for all the things THEY don't agree with or like.
Don't get me wrong, I spent tons of time researching the teeny tiny details and another couple tons of money and time restoring my car. BUT I also am putting together a fun car that will only be about 60-75% "correct", because I want to take it out and have some real fun with it. I just figure both cars should be accepted for what they are...MY Pontiacs.
I think the younger owners will very likely "relate" to that kind of club where the focus is on the cars and the fun stuff associated with them as opposed to one where the most exciting activity planned is a technical demonstration on the correct plating for the steering column nut!

I see this forum and club as a fresh start to give every Pontiac owner a chance to "play" because he or she owns a Pontiac and NOT because it measures up to someone else's standards or fits into a special category or age of car. I may be wrong, but I also remember the sad day I retired my old slide rule for a hand held calculator, and just look at me now...chatting with other Pontiac nuts coast-to-coast on a computer I paid about double what that Bomar Brain cost! We old Iron Horse dudes better make a place for those turbocharged exhaust tuned Pontiac drivers...they are going to be all over us!!

Duncan

[bencar]

[bencar]

Regarding the Computer thing, my response to those who seem so scared of Computers is-'It's a machine, I've always been intrigued by machines, and therefore, I had no problem getting involved with Computers.' Also, when one runs a Car Club these days, either you become comfortable with Computers, and Computer literate, or you may not be able to communicate with more than half of your Members. Another aspect of becoming Computer literate, is that it is so much quicker to surf the Web, and get those hard to find parts for your older Pontiac, than it would be to find them the old fashioned way.

[Bodyworx]

These kids now use computers to tune their cars and i see nothing wrong with that. If computers were available in the 50's and 60's to tune you musclecar to get dead-on Fuel ratios and shave about 3 tenths off your 1/4 mile time i honestly believe they would have used it. Cars are going the way of technology and computers. I agree. These kids are building up what is available to them at an affordable cost and thats generally not a 68 GTO. Its a Honda Prelude.

On another note i will say that TV shows like Barrett Jackson are the reason that these cars are not affordable any longer. I will give you an example. My best friend of 15 years has always had an interest in Late 60's Early 70's Mopars. About 4 years ago he bought a 1969 Coronet off of one of our friends for $2000. The body is straight as an arrow. It needs Motor, Trans and lots of Interior work. He has been offered $10,000+ numerous times by people that claim they want an old Mopar just like the ones thay see on Barrett Jackson.

If you have $150,000 to spend on a Musclecar why not go and buy one thats on its way to a junk yard and build it the way you want it and also save another old car. You could have bought thats same 'cuda convertible for about $15,000 that thanks to Barrett Jackson is now a $150,000 to $200,000.

Seriously think about it for a second. I have been buying and selling Old Cars all my life. I'm on my 48th car and im 32 years old. I have looked at numerous muscle cars in the last few years that needed lots of work for astronomical prices and almost always was told buy the Owners " I know its worth the money because i saw it on Barrett Jackson restored for ( Insert Price Here ) " I still love muscle cars but i have officially given up on owning one. I now prefer Late 40's early 50's cars because of the affordability of parts and vehicles.

No wonder this generation of kids is not into Muscle Cars. Could you afford it when you were a kid? These cars weren't worth anything when i was a kid and in that sense i was lucky. Ive had some of the baddest muscle cars ever made. They were affordable ... now they are not.

Just to name a few Ive had 2 -1968 GTO's , 1 -1968 LeMans Sport, 1-1969 Buick Skylark Custom, 1 1970 Buick GS stage 1 , 1-1970 Nova SS ( this car did 11.30's in the quarter and i drove it to work everyday. )
2-1979 Trans Am's ( 1 - 6.6 Litre and 1-TA 6.6 ) Both with T-Tops.

My only fear is that this might be a time gone by for everyone except a fortunate few who have had and kept their cars or the wealthy !! How sad for the upcoming generations to not be able to experience the rush of raw horsepower.

[bencar]

[super]

Barret-Jackson has ruined many things for the everyday hobbyist. I absolutely agree with that statement. Those of us that owned these cars(musclecars) while prices were affordable are very fortunate. I am very happy I was given the oppurtunity to purchase my 1974 SD455 T/A.

I really do not care about all the politics of these big auctions. I did not buy my T/A because it was "valuable" or a "collector's item." I purchased the car because I liked the styling(Pontiac's are definitely in a class of their own) and the power it produced. I really get irritated when I am asked, "how much is it worth?" I truly do not care! I love driving the car and occasionally running it down the dragstrip. That is what it is all about to me. I have been trying to teach my nephews this. If you own it, enjoy it. Don't get mixed up in pricing, value, etc. It is a hobby, have fun and use it!!

Pontiac has so many other avenues to choose from that are affordable yet. As time passes, even these cars may have sky-rocketing prices. I have seen many affordable lines of Pontiac cars that are loaded with style. I actually enjoy seeing these cars at cruises, drag races and car shows.

Most of the 80's Pontiacs are very reasonably priced. Some of them offer good performance too. Some of the full-size Pontiacs of the 60s' are reasonably priced. Most of them offer good performance. I like the late 70's and early 80's Grand Prixs. Some were offered with Pontiac power and are even backed by 4-speeds transmissions.

How about the smaller line of Pontiacs such as the Fiero, Astre, Sunbird, etc? All great cars in their own ways. All are very affordable for the younger generation. Almost all of the younger kids I have been around know nothing about the Fiero. It is kind of funny. I have tried to explain the cars to several younger kids. They really do not know what to expect. I have two kids in my home town now that are under 18 and absolutely love these little Pontiacs. Another kid I got hooked on the Fiero lives about 20 miles away and has started a V-8 conversion on his. I am proud of him for taking on this project. Great kid with a cool car!

When I bought my Sunbird, I told my nephew about my plans for the car. He could not visualize what I was seeing in the tiny Pontiac. Once I should him a picture of a street rod Sunbird, he got a grin from ear to ear. It is fun to get these kids steered in to a different direction. The young boy that is doing the Fiero conversion always talked about cars he had grown up around, mostly foriegn cars. He is a die-hard Fiero nut now and a firm believer in Pontiacs.

I absolutely accept all styles of Pontiacs. It is a hobby that should be enjoyed by all ages. All we can do is pass down the torch. All of us have probably touched some of these young kids lives. It happened to me as a child and I am now doing the same thing. It is great!!